A Candid Conversation (Part 2)

Mel: When I used to frequent chat rooms one of the criticisms I often encountered is that you have a bad temper and that that therefore disqualifies you to be a teacher or a nagual. The other criticism making the rounds is that you labeled yourself a 'Nagual' out of the blue. What's your thoughts on that?

Della: *LOL* Let's talk about a bad temper first. For the most part, I only have a bad temper if someone provokes me over a period of time. I've used the analogy before that if you poke at a dog long enough, eventually it will bite you. You may then blame the dog and wail to anyone who will listen that you were bitten by a mean dog and it should be put to sleep immediately; or you can take responsibility for your own actions - i.e., you provoked the "attack", which is really a matter of self-defense. Don't want to get bit? Don't poke the bitch. Simple logic. *heh* I think 99.9% of the people I know and work with on these forums would say I'm pretty patient even if not entirely tolerant of bullshit. And normally those who complain the loudest about someone else's "bad temper" are the leading CAUSE of it in the first place.

Now, in a more general sense and to answer your question directly, does that disqualify me as a teacher? That's not really for me to decide. I've said often on my website that you may easily discredit the messenger, but the message will remain. In my opinion, focussing attention on personality flaws in a situation such as this is rather like fighting in a burning building. I have what many consider to be valuable knowledge that I'm willing to share. To me, THAT is where we need to be focussed - on what we can do for one another, what we can learn from one another, what each of us brings to the table. Fact is, a LOT of so-called "shamans" or "naguals" or "seers" are mad as hatters, but that doesn't alter the fact that they ALSO have valuable knowledge. It isn't required that you like them or even that you believe them. But trying to shift the focus from the message onto the messenger is pretty self-defeating, and generally tends to reveal the agenda of those doing the shifting.

Mel: What about don Juan? Wasn't he a pretty level-headed guy?

Della: Don Juan is a character in a book. Maybe he existed "in the flesh," but I seriously doubt that. Doesn't mean he didn't exist - simply means that he was either a composite of many people Castaneda met in his journeys; or (my personal read on it), don Juan was Carlos's double, whether Carlos ever knew it or not. My guess is that he DID know it but only somewhat "later in the game", long after DJM had burned with the fire from within. Anyway, point is that whether DJM was a man or a myth, he is a CHARACTER in a book. He is written in a certain way to appear how the writer WANTED him to appear. And even he lost his temper a time or two, as I recall. *LOL* Now we would dismiss all of his teachings because he lost his temper a few times, but why would we want to do that? Throw the baby out with the bath water. And if you want to get into myth, there was that little tantrum Jesus threw when he tossed the money changers out of the temple. So, I guess Jesus has a bad temper, too, and everything he ever said should therefore be dismissed.

Thing is... it's easy to discredit any messenger. And I make a point of giving people sufficient ammunition to "discredit" me if that is their goal. I'm no saint, and I'm no paragon of sweetness & light. It always amazes me when people want to talk about ME instead of the far more pertinent stuff we could be discussing. Then again, for as long as people can divert their attention from the work, they have succeeded in disabling themselves - and with what they would even consider to be a Righteous Cause! Amazing. And sad as well. While they're off rattling their swords at imagined demons, time is slipping past them. And the eagle just waits with a smile.

Mel: Okay - what about the nagual thing. What's all the hooplah about that?

Della: Damned if I know! *LOL* The title of my book is QUANTUM SHAMAN: Diary of a Nagual Woman. I'm not the first person to apply that title to myself, either. I resisted it for years because of the baggage it carries - labels are like programs, and tend to invite trouble - but when I decided to write the book, I finally gave in and decided to accept what I had known for years. Now, with that said, being a 'Nagual' is no big deal in the grand scheme of things. What it really means is that a nagual has the four energetic compartments instead of the traditional two. The reason for this, as I've found in my own experiences & research, is that it has to do with the double being more or less "born" at the same time the humanform self is born. I've talked about this quite a bit in other places. But ultimately, it's just like being born with green eyes or blonde hair - it's just an "attribute", meaning nothing in and of itself. So to say I'm a 'Nagual' is not very different than saying I'm a female. You're either born with that attribute or you're not. What you do with it is what matters.

[NOTE from Melancholy Man: After our conversation ended, I was able to track down several links to these threads. After re-reading them, it really dawned on me how silly all of this other stuff really is. There's so much more we could be doing here. So I am going to encourage you to read these posts too.]

The Double vs. Double Beings
Why Do Double Beings Exist?
The Dual Assemblage Point

Continuing the dialogue...

Mel: So what I'm hearing is that you're not attached to the label?

Della: Not at all. The label was attached to me and I guess it threatens a lot of people. Not my problem, except that while they're trying to discredit me, the clock is ticking.

Mel: Why do you think your critics are so adamant about this?

Della: Well, it's mainly three or four people who have formed their own little consensus - based largely on the ramblings of one of those 'enlightened' drunks. That's how factions get started and they're altogether ridiculous in spiritual arenas, because the bottom line is that if you don't like what a teacher or a nagual or a passing hermit has to say, so what? Go your own way and walk your own path and get over yourself. Trying to tear someone else down reminds me of the Crusades - where a bunch of overgrown boys ride off into the unknown to lob off the heads of infidels. Translated, kill anybody who doesn't agree with you. Problem is... with forums AND with crusaders, most of them don't even know WHAT they believe. They only know that they feel threatened, and so they react with violence. Nothing new there.

Mel: What seems kinda wonky to me where forums are concerned is that the threads that have some potentially eye-opening content are virtually ignored in favor of troll threads.
Della: You noticed that, too, didja? *LOL* It's easier to fight than to learn. Bottom line, human nature. That's why I'm more or less done with these forums for the time being.

Mel: You don't feel you're learning anything from them anymore?

Della: Not lately - probably not in a few years.

Mel: That surprises me.

Della: Why? Forming the foundation of ourselves may be a lifelong process in one way, but in another way it only takes a few years at most to strip away the programming and face ourselves in the mirror. That's what the process of assimilation is all about. Once we've built our foundation through the work of the journey (however that manifests will be different for everyone), we come to that point where we test our knowledge, see if what we have learned is viable of not. For me, that process occurred largely at the old Delphi forum, and only marginally here at TSW.

Mel: This intrigues me. Are you saying there's nothing more to learn?

Della: No, not at all! I'm saying that I've tested the foundation of my knowledge, and the foundation holds. It's always expanding, always revising itself - that's the process of living, and hopefully living as impeccably as I can. Orlando pointed out something of interest recently -

"You may begin to realize that your process of interactive assimilation is finished when your peer group stops challenging your knowledge and begins challenging your personality instead." (Orlando, 2008)

That probably should have been obvious a long time ago, but like I said... I'm slow. *LOL*

Mel: You said recently that you felt TSW has become a "dead zone." What are you planning to do about it?

Della: Nothing. It's there if people want to use it, and if they don't, it'll just quietly dissipate and that'll be that. No great loss - it's completely unimportant in the scheme of things. I figured out a long time ago that things have their "time" and when that time is up, it's just up. If TSW's "time" has passed, no big deal. It depends on the people who use the forum - it's really not up to me at this point.

Mel: What about your own journey? I mean, what are you doing these days outside of cyberspace?

Della: You mean there's life outside of cyberspace? *LOL* Actually, I'm working on the idea of transmogrification, rather heavily. A couple of other very sharp warriors on my private list have contributed a lot to that effort, and it's one of those ongoing projects, one of those things we struggle to wrap our minds around, because often it's when we UNDERSTAND something that we enable ourselves to DO it. Easy enough to just dismiss it and say, "Oh, but that's impossible, Della!" But it's only when we can allow the impossible that we really tap our personal power and find the will to do all sorts of things once believed to be impossible. Every day I turn on this computer and talk to people all over the world, I'm reminded of my old days as a Star Trek writer when all of this was considered "science fiction." Well, the future has manifested because a few people out there were willing to allow the impossible and went to the bother of creating it.

Mel: Are you talking about transmogrification in the sense of stepping into your double, becoming an inorganic being?

Della: In a manner of speaking, yes. But it's a complex subject. Last night when I was meditating, I received this huge "download" of information through gnosis having to do with transmogrification. *heh* I call it a zip file - meaning that the file downloads instantly, but it can take months or even years to completely unzip all the data and apply it in one's own life. That's where The Future is for me - working with gnosis and my own personal zip files.

Mel: Out of curiosity, is gnosis something that can be taught? What I mean is that I hear you talk about it often but I get the sense that a lot of people either don't understand what you're saying or else they have no reference point.

Della: I dunno. I can only go on my own experience. Once I finally isolated "the place of silent knowing" it became relatively easy to shift my AP into that position and even hold it there most of the time. To me, that's the natural way of things. But if somebody has never found that AP in the first place, they might not even believe it exists. The internal dialogue is a master of convincing us that we're impotent slobs at the mercy of fate. But we are really the most powerful beings in the universe - once we get beyond the idea that we are the most powerful beings in the universe.

Mel: Okay girl, it's 3 am and I'm going to turn into a pumpkin.

Della: We are all one pumpkin?
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NOTE from Melancholy Man: In hindsight as I was preparing this chat transcript to be posted, it really struck me that when we can talk about the path as we were doing toward the end of this chat, the whole energy changes and shifts the assemblage point to a more outward cone of energy, it expands our awareness in other words. So here's the thing... we have all of this knowledge at our fingertips, in the form of one another and our personal journeys. A good friend of mine (I would dare to call him a Nagual) once said, "Hey Mel, you can focus on the sky or you can walk along with your head down 'cause you're worried about stepping in dog shit."

Maybe I'm just an incurable optimist but I wonder what we could do here if we all started focusing on the sky instead of looking for dog shit.

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Thanks to Melancholy Man for his efforts in attempting to save me from myself. :)

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