Too many people think spiritual enlightenment or spiritual evolution is about sitting in a dark cave contemplating the navels of sages, but that hasn't been my experience. It's about getting real with ourselves and taking responsibility for our own lives. It's about not blaming your teacher if you fail, and most of all it's about the cold, stark realization that no one CAN do this for you. So, with that said, this "interview" follows in the wake of some recent turmoil stemming from my own personal run-ins with The Boozer & The Loser - my own personal devils, my personal detractors. *LOL* Thanks to Mel for pushing me to "speak out even when you're cussin' like a sailor." Something to be said for that.
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Mel: You've made some major changes to the forum. Think it'll make any difference?
Della: Probably not. Doesn't matter, of course. The forum is just something I created for my own use in the beginning - a way to work through my own assimilation. Later it evolved into whatever phases it has gone through. It will either sink or swim entirely on its own merit at this point. And that's perfectly okay.
I'm not sure when these forums went from being a learning tool to being some sort of warped substitute for living one's life! And that's not the half of it! When you really start examining the dynamics of what's going on, you'll discover in most cases that a lot of folks aren't the least bit interested in any sort of spiritual evolution or learning or sharing their path.
Mel: So then what do you think their motive is for being here??
Different motives for different people, I imagine. My biggest detractors have always been what I've come to call The Boozers and The Losers. Over time, they have become a paradigm for a much bigger picture. Bottom line - the boozers are troublemakers and rabble rousers. Call them trolls if you want. Call them Agent Smith - a living belief system, mouthpiece for the consensus reality whether they realize it or not - upholders of the status quo, preachers of the program, or conduits for whatever they happen to be reading at the time. Google gurus, in other words. I've often joked that it's Underwater Sunshine Enlightenment this week, and Astral Entanglements for the Sexually Dysfynctional next week. Lots of them like to claim they are Toltec practitioners and may quote don Juan by chapter and verse, but they appear to know only the intellectual applications and none of the experiential. Armchair warriors are a dime a dozen.
Mel: I remember a discussion from a while back when it was hinted that this kind of behavior may be even more sinister than that. What's your thoughts on that?
Della: Well, in a way it IS sinister - there are people who hang out on forums not really to promote spiritual evolution, but to make sure that nobody ELSE can do so either. They're the ones constantly asking questions like, "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" Everything to the boozer is a potential argument - because that's what boozers do, and that's their currency. They thrive on anger, hate & discontent. Their goal is distraction, dissipation & diversion (the 3 D's). They go to a bar (forum), they get drunk (literally), and then they start throwing bar stools just to bring attention to themselves. They may try to disguise their rabble-rousing as a "challenge" to others on the forum (usually the admin or moderators), but even after the admin/mods have answered their questions, they just keep hammering with the same questions - until eventually the forum deteriorates into some sort of weird Romper Room for the Terminally Stupefied. No answer is good enough, and so it becomes a circular, downward spiral into pointless minutiae which is the trademark of the "enlightened drunk".
One thing I learned was not to take myself too seriously when I'm drunk, stoned or under the influence. Another thing that seems patently obvious to me is that if someone can't get through the day without being drunk, they clearly have no respect for themselves, so their 'spiritual' opinions become suspect. But just to be perfectly clear on this: it's not the person I dismiss here. It is the conclusions and the "opinions" they form as a RESULT of their drunken stupor or drug-induced haze. Everybody is certifiably brilliant when they're stoned. Just ask 'em! And yet, above all else a warrior has sobriety. Now you can cut that and dice it any way you like. You can say, "Don Juan didn't mean that literally!" But... if not, why say it? Doesn't mean you can't have a drink once in awhile. But if ANYTHING interferes with your natural sobriety as a matter of course on a daily basis, chances are you assemblage point is so skewed that you need to be on an AA forum rather than a forum about spiritual enlightenment. Another ugly truth. Sobriety first, THEN enlightenment. Seems to be the general order of priorities.
Mel: Does anybody ever really 'lose' if they are seeking so-called spiritual enlightenment?
Della: There are seekers, and then there are PROFESSIONAL seekers - those who like to pretend they are looking for enlightenment, when they are really only looking for cheap entertainment. These are the losers - who are more or less just the mouthpieces for the boozers - i.e., they are the yesmen & women who get dragged into the drama and what ends up happening is a choosing up of sides - as if spiritual evolution is all about who's right and who's wrong, as if it's a battlefield like something out of the ancient Crusades. "If you don't believe what I WANT you to believe, I'll lob off your naughty bits!" How childish! That's part of what this whole "battle" has been about that's invaded The Sorcerer's World from time to time. A certain group would be a lot more comfortable if I were to say I'm not a teacher, not a nagual, not a seer, not a sorcerer, and so on. Why it MATTERS to them so much is an issue that might bear some examination, but obviously that's not where their interests lie. They're still functioning under the delusion that stalking is about stalking others instead of stalking oneself. *shrugs* No cure for that, except time. And even then, most who are of that mindset never overcome it.
Mel: Okay, let's be honest here. Going back to the Romper Room analogy... it could be argued that you yourself allowed that to go on for a long time.
Della: True. I'm slow!Took me a long time to realize that there is truly no hope for hopeless individuals. Ugly truth. Very nasty ugly truth. One I don't want to acknowledge. But there it is, staring me in the face. I've been a teacher in other areas of my life - taught women's self-defense, writing classes, Tarot reading, achieving gnosis, and several other things. When I would see somebody struggling or frustrated or angry, I always felt that if I could just explain myself a bit better, they might grasp what was being put forth. So my nature is to nurture - though I have to admit that these forums have more or less disabused me of any such notions where trolls, boozers & losers are concerned! *gotta laugh* Bottom line, I kept thinking that a couple of the "losers" were genuinely struggling to understand something, but that was never the case at all. Their primary interest was to discredit the messenger in the hopes of discrediting the message. Smoke and mirrors - divert attention from what matters onto trivial personality wars. Oldest trick in the loser's book.
Mel: Does anybody ever really 'lose' if they are seeking so-called spiritual enlightenment?
Della: There are seekers, and then there are PROFESSIONAL seekers - those who like to pretend they are looking for enlightenment, when they are really only looking for cheap entertainment. These are the losers - who are more or less just the mouthpieces for the boozers - i.e., they are the yesmen & women who get dragged into the drama and what ends up happening is a choosing up of sides - as if spiritual evolution is all about who's right and who's wrong, as if it's a battlefield like something out of the ancient Crusades. "If you don't believe what I WANT you to believe, I'll lob off your naughty bits!" How childish! That's part of what this whole "battle" has been about that's invaded The Sorcerer's World from time to time. A certain group would be a lot more comfortable if I were to say I'm not a teacher, not a nagual, not a seer, not a sorcerer, and so on. Why it MATTERS to them so much is an issue that might bear some examination, but obviously that's not where their interests lie. They're still functioning under the delusion that stalking is about stalking others instead of stalking oneself. *shrugs* No cure for that, except time. And even then, most who are of that mindset never overcome it.
Mel: Okay, let's be honest here. Going back to the Romper Room analogy... it could be argued that you yourself allowed that to go on for a long time.
Della: True. I'm slow!Took me a long time to realize that there is truly no hope for hopeless individuals. Ugly truth. Very nasty ugly truth. One I don't want to acknowledge. But there it is, staring me in the face. I've been a teacher in other areas of my life - taught women's self-defense, writing classes, Tarot reading, achieving gnosis, and several other things. When I would see somebody struggling or frustrated or angry, I always felt that if I could just explain myself a bit better, they might grasp what was being put forth. So my nature is to nurture - though I have to admit that these forums have more or less disabused me of any such notions where trolls, boozers & losers are concerned! *gotta laugh* Bottom line, I kept thinking that a couple of the "losers" were genuinely struggling to understand something, but that was never the case at all. Their primary interest was to discredit the messenger in the hopes of discrediting the message. Smoke and mirrors - divert attention from what matters onto trivial personality wars. Oldest trick in the loser's book.
Mel: What do you mean?
Della: Lot of history here that would take more time to get into than it's worth. Suffice it to say that my Numero Uno Critic used to be a follower who ran around calling me his guru, despite repeated attempts on my part to disabuse him of that idea. One day he got pissed off at me when I questioned him about something, and quite abruptly I became the devil incarnate. He makes a lot of noise saying I didn't live up to his expectations, but that's the funny thing - all of that comes AFTER-the-fact that this person got pissed and suddenly needed to dredge up a lot of excuses as to why this was MY fault rather than perhaps his own previously unrecognized attachments. Typical manifestation of humanform denial. When you fail in your journey, by all means blame the teacher! Blame ANY teacher! Blame ALL teachers! Blame, blame, blame! One only needs to ask, "How's that werkin' fer ya?"
Mel: Don't we all have expectations of one another?
Not if we're truly on a spiritual journey toward evolution. I can't evolve for you; you can't evolve for me. Maybe we can't even help one another in the process - jury's still out on that one. I'm not here to live up to anyone's expectations and I believe I've made that quite clear. Someones doesn't like my teachings or my opinions or my ideas, you're under no obligation to remain. You ARE free to question, even to challenge - but once your questions & challenges have been met, it's over. Move on. Either you will accept the answers to your questions or not. If so, take it to the next level. If not, there's the door, with no hard feelings. But continuing to hammer the same questions just reveals the agenda of the questioner. The end result, if it is allowed to continue, is that the forum becomes crippled - which, unfortunately, I allowed to happen a couple of times around here. And it's one of the primary reasons I asked you to moderate the public aspects of TSW, since I know you are a bit more ruthless with would-be trolls than I have been.
Mel: So why do you think trolls seek out spiritual forums?
Della: Who's to say? Maybe they start out sincere and lose their way. Maybe they need someone to blame when they get lost. What's funny is that losers seem to NEED to try to discredit those whom they themselves decided were their "teachers" - even if no such arrangement ever existed. People have made comments to me like, 'I thought So-and-so was an apprentice of yours! That's what he said!" Well, people say all sorts of shit. I can't be responsible for their delusions or their anger when they suddenly get smacked upside the head with the realization that this really isn't some role playing game. I'm not don Juan. Never said otherwise. I feel I have quite a bit to offer in the way of experience, and maybe that makes me a teacher. If that bothers you, or threatens you or in some way disturbs you... obviously there is no obligation for you to remain here. Period. That's the part I've never fully understood. Why do these folk want to hang out and keep battering away with the same old shit? Reminds me of a kid in a store who keeps throwing the same tantrum over and over. "I want that toy and if you don't buy it for me, I'll hate you!" Translated to forum lingo, "I want enlightenment and if you don't give it to me I'm going to beat the shit out of you with words!"
Jeezus Harold Christ! When did spiritual pursuits turn into who's going to kick who's ass??? Last I heard, spiritual evolution & enlightenment are not really arrived at via violence - whether emotional or physical. Enlightenment is a process, and evolution is a movement of will over a period of time. The rest is pretty much tonal bullshit - stuff we wade through because we are human and cling to the status quo of that label. One of the most difficult traps to climb out of is the one that tries to tell us, "We are already perfect. We are already enlightened. We are already buddhas." Anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows better! Anyone who has been on a path of spiritual evolution for long enough to have learned to *see* not only knows better, but *sees* the trap inherent in that line of thinking. We all have potential. Some of us use it. Others never will. But believing we are already "there" is nothing more than abdicating responsibility. It's like saying, "We are all doctors! So I'm going to go out and start practicing medicine even though I never spent a single day in medical school." Same logic - and the results speak for themselves.
Mel: At the risk of sounding like a critic, don't you think some of what you're saying here is negative?
Della: *LOL* Of course some of it is negative! Life isn't a parade of rainbows and sunshine despite what the bliss ninnies would have you believe! That's one thing about the Toltec path that I value, though. It never tries to pretend it's anything other than what it is. To anyone who truly *sees*, things exist in balance. But in the HUMAN world, that balance is kicked out of whack by agendas, dark motives and role playing games - the favorite turf of boozers & losers. When I first started hosting a forum back in 2000, I was a lot more naive, so maybe it would have seemed I was a lot more forgiving or positive or "fluffy". In reality, how I see it from my perspective now is that I've learned a lot about people as a result of these forums. And I've learned a lot about myself. My patience is long, but not infinite. And my tolerance for gamesters & self-appointed gunslingers is zero.
Mel: Let's talk about bliss ninnies. Aren't they harmless? And if they're harmless, why would you care what they think or say or do?
Well, for starters, I don't see them as harmless. Quite the opposite. When the building is on fire and the rafters are crumbling all around, a bliss ninnie will stand in the middle of it all and say, "Yes, but it's a dry heat! And aren't the flames lovely!" Am I being facetious? Maybe to a point, but not by much. I think that someone who sees the world as sweetness and light is every bit as deluded as someone who only sees darkness & despair. But my personal beef with bliss ninnies is that they want everyone to see the world through the same rose-colored glasses they're wearing - and may the gods help you if you don't! But no matter. Let's just say that I think bliss ninnies are all fine and good but they really don't belong on a forum about spiritual EVOLUTION - because evolution is a difficult task requiring impeccability, commitment and - most of all - clarity. We won't evolve by shoving sugar up our nose or blowing smoke up one another's ass. We will evolve only by seeing the world and ourselves for what we are - and that simply cannot be done while wearing rose colored glasses.
Mel: So where do forums play into that?
Della: To be honest, I'm not sure they do. At least not anymore. There was a time when I had my old forum back on Delphi that I think things were a bit different. People actually seemed interested in sharing tales of power and learning from one another's experiences, instead of just playing the game of who's the better warrior.
Mel: Who's the better warrior? I've heard you use that before. What - exactly - do you mean by that?
Della: Oh - you know. It's the game the boozers & losers play when they run out of any other sort of ammo. If they can't win an argument, they put on their warrior mask and point the finger at everyone but themselves. "You're self-important!" Or, "You're just indulging!" Some of them create entire costumes for themselves - like a couple of the self-proclaimed "Della-bashers" out there. Gimme a break! While they're worrying about ME, they are completely ignoring their own path. Who cares what Della thinks? Hell, even *I* don't care half the time, so it always amazes me when some idiot starts running in circles trying to rally others to hate this teacher or disregard that guru or dismantle the teachings of some other guy who perhaps has a website about enlightenment. In their ruthless pursuit of "false teachers" they are doing nothing more than rattling their sabres for... ??? What? Truth, Justice & the American Way? A Unified Field Theory? Don Juan's left testicle? What?
Most times, they will claim they are afraid of being seduced into a cult or some such - which, of course, is a hysterical manifestation of that very self-importance they are railing against. Let's face it. Most cults don't really go out recruiting because they don't really NEED to. In most cases, someone who gets suckered in by a cult is LOOKING for a cult to get suckered into. Who's to say why? Loneliness, low self-esteem, lack of self-confidence. Hell, I've been accused recently of being a "cult leader" - which always makes me laugh. Yeah... right. Show me my cult. Show me the throngs of adoring followers. *LOL* Show me my Rolls Royce and my bankroll of hundred dollar bills and my assembled band of handsome young men gathered at my feet ready to peel me a grape and fan me with palm fronds. Yup. I'd like to see that cult!
You want to see a cult, go look at the Catholic Church or the Mormons or any other organized religion. Just because they are larger doesn't make them exempt. THERE is where you will find the real cults - and far more dangerous than anything you are likely to uncover on the internet. You want to talk about minds being wiped and lives destroyed? Look at any Christian in the throes of his or her religious experience. And then take a look at the prejudice, bigotry and hatred that is touted "in God's name" by any and all of these major religions. There's your cult.
Mel: What about Castaneda's cult? Amy Wallace's book claims he had quite a harem at one time.
Della: Oh, I have no doubt of it. But like I said - people who get suckered into cults are usually looking to get suckered into cults. These weren't "innocent" young women just looking for true love. They knew who CC was, and if they had two brain cells to rub together, they knew EXACTLY what kind of man he was. If they didn't, well they probably found out pretty quickly. At that point, they can either stay or leave. He certainly wasn't holding anyone prisoner. Again, look at churches if you want to see people held prisoner! As a kid, I was blasted with the program that said if I didn't believe in the xtian god, I was going to hell. If I didn't go to church, I was going to hell. If I didn't proselytize, I was going to hell. It was madness - the fear-based religions that steal not only our mind, but potentially our soul. Sure, cults can be a danger - but far LESS dangerous than organized religion.
And, bottom line, if you are worried about being suckered into a cult, use a bit more of your common sense and a bit less of your self-importance and ask yourself why a cult would want you in the first place. *LOL* Are you all that? Do you have tons of money to donate to the leader? Sure, we would talk about Heaven's Gate and their comet starship fantasies, but the bottom line is that nobody forced them into that cult. It was their choice to join on and their choice not to leave when they saw the inner workings of the madhouse. Why did they stay? Why did they eat the pudding? Who's to say? Maybe they believed in their great cause or maybe they just desperately wanted to belong, even if it meant dying to do it. Personally, I think people who fall into that kind of cult are somehow "damaged" in the first place. Yes, it's sad. No, it's not my fault. And neither you nor I can save people from themselves. So - worrying about getting suckered into a cult is rather like worrying about getting hit by falling debris from the space shuttle. Either could happen, but neither is likely - particularly if you don't choose to be standing at ground zero.
Mel: Maybe some parents are afraid their kids might get influenced by some of the stuff you've published on your website, or some of the things in CC's books, or whatever. Isn't that a legitimate concern? Kids can take things too literally for their own good.
They might just as easily mistake the works of Stephen King or Anne Rice for reality, and start running around acting like vampires or zombies. They might put on Star Trek uniforms and try to beam themselves up to the Enterprise, too. Can't censor the whole world out of fear of somebody believing they can fly after reading a Superman comic.
I don't have kids because I CHOSE not to have kids. Not saying my choice has to hold for anyone else, but it seems to me that if I DID decide to have kids, it would be up to ME to police them, and not to expect the whole world to watch out for them. Be that as it may, it just seems that we can't "protect the children" except through educating them. If you're afraid of your child getting caught up in a cult, by all means educate the child about the nature of cults - and don't then follow-up by taking them to church on Sunday, because in doing so you are just dismantling the very thing you are trying to teach them. Take responsibility for your own kids - and that means opening your own eyes in order to do that. I know a lot of xtian parents who home school their kids these days, and it's really kinda frightening when that kid gets turned loose in the real world. They simply are not prepared for the harsh reality that exists outside of their narrow cult - and that is WHOLLY and ENTIRELY and 100% the fault of the parents, who have indoctrinated them into THEIR cult because of their own crazy belief systems.
Harsh? Maybe, but it is what it is. Frankly, I'm tired of being asked to look out for everybody else's feelings and cultural taboos and belief systems, when it is patently obvious that those taboos and belief systems are PRECISELY what is responsible for all the crap going on in the world today. Rid the world of organized religion and you would see people forced to begin formulating their OWN ideas about spirituality - looking INSIDE themselves instead of hooking their intent into the cult-du-jour. Without the required agreements that stem from organized religion (and politics, for that matter), the mind is freed to find its own balance, to seek its own level. And this is especially true of children. So if people are afraid their kids might be suckered into a cult, they need to look at their own lives and determine to what extent they are programming their children to do just that...
Della: Lot of history here that would take more time to get into than it's worth. Suffice it to say that my Numero Uno Critic used to be a follower who ran around calling me his guru, despite repeated attempts on my part to disabuse him of that idea. One day he got pissed off at me when I questioned him about something, and quite abruptly I became the devil incarnate. He makes a lot of noise saying I didn't live up to his expectations, but that's the funny thing - all of that comes AFTER-the-fact that this person got pissed and suddenly needed to dredge up a lot of excuses as to why this was MY fault rather than perhaps his own previously unrecognized attachments. Typical manifestation of humanform denial. When you fail in your journey, by all means blame the teacher! Blame ANY teacher! Blame ALL teachers! Blame, blame, blame! One only needs to ask, "How's that werkin' fer ya?"Mel: Don't we all have expectations of one another?
Not if we're truly on a spiritual journey toward evolution. I can't evolve for you; you can't evolve for me. Maybe we can't even help one another in the process - jury's still out on that one. I'm not here to live up to anyone's expectations and I believe I've made that quite clear. Someones doesn't like my teachings or my opinions or my ideas, you're under no obligation to remain. You ARE free to question, even to challenge - but once your questions & challenges have been met, it's over. Move on. Either you will accept the answers to your questions or not. If so, take it to the next level. If not, there's the door, with no hard feelings. But continuing to hammer the same questions just reveals the agenda of the questioner. The end result, if it is allowed to continue, is that the forum becomes crippled - which, unfortunately, I allowed to happen a couple of times around here. And it's one of the primary reasons I asked you to moderate the public aspects of TSW, since I know you are a bit more ruthless with would-be trolls than I have been.Mel: So why do you think trolls seek out spiritual forums?
Della: Who's to say? Maybe they start out sincere and lose their way. Maybe they need someone to blame when they get lost. What's funny is that losers seem to NEED to try to discredit those whom they themselves decided were their "teachers" - even if no such arrangement ever existed. People have made comments to me like, 'I thought So-and-so was an apprentice of yours! That's what he said!" Well, people say all sorts of shit. I can't be responsible for their delusions or their anger when they suddenly get smacked upside the head with the realization that this really isn't some role playing game. I'm not don Juan. Never said otherwise. I feel I have quite a bit to offer in the way of experience, and maybe that makes me a teacher. If that bothers you, or threatens you or in some way disturbs you... obviously there is no obligation for you to remain here. Period. That's the part I've never fully understood. Why do these folk want to hang out and keep battering away with the same old shit? Reminds me of a kid in a store who keeps throwing the same tantrum over and over. "I want that toy and if you don't buy it for me, I'll hate you!" Translated to forum lingo, "I want enlightenment and if you don't give it to me I'm going to beat the shit out of you with words!"
Jeezus Harold Christ! When did spiritual pursuits turn into who's going to kick who's ass??? Last I heard, spiritual evolution & enlightenment are not really arrived at via violence - whether emotional or physical. Enlightenment is a process, and evolution is a movement of will over a period of time. The rest is pretty much tonal bullshit - stuff we wade through because we are human and cling to the status quo of that label. One of the most difficult traps to climb out of is the one that tries to tell us, "We are already perfect. We are already enlightened. We are already buddhas." Anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows better! Anyone who has been on a path of spiritual evolution for long enough to have learned to *see* not only knows better, but *sees* the trap inherent in that line of thinking. We all have potential. Some of us use it. Others never will. But believing we are already "there" is nothing more than abdicating responsibility. It's like saying, "We are all doctors! So I'm going to go out and start practicing medicine even though I never spent a single day in medical school." Same logic - and the results speak for themselves.Mel: At the risk of sounding like a critic, don't you think some of what you're saying here is negative?
Della: *LOL* Of course some of it is negative! Life isn't a parade of rainbows and sunshine despite what the bliss ninnies would have you believe! That's one thing about the Toltec path that I value, though. It never tries to pretend it's anything other than what it is. To anyone who truly *sees*, things exist in balance. But in the HUMAN world, that balance is kicked out of whack by agendas, dark motives and role playing games - the favorite turf of boozers & losers. When I first started hosting a forum back in 2000, I was a lot more naive, so maybe it would have seemed I was a lot more forgiving or positive or "fluffy". In reality, how I see it from my perspective now is that I've learned a lot about people as a result of these forums. And I've learned a lot about myself. My patience is long, but not infinite. And my tolerance for gamesters & self-appointed gunslingers is zero.
Mel: Let's talk about bliss ninnies. Aren't they harmless? And if they're harmless, why would you care what they think or say or do?
Well, for starters, I don't see them as harmless. Quite the opposite. When the building is on fire and the rafters are crumbling all around, a bliss ninnie will stand in the middle of it all and say, "Yes, but it's a dry heat! And aren't the flames lovely!" Am I being facetious? Maybe to a point, but not by much. I think that someone who sees the world as sweetness and light is every bit as deluded as someone who only sees darkness & despair. But my personal beef with bliss ninnies is that they want everyone to see the world through the same rose-colored glasses they're wearing - and may the gods help you if you don't! But no matter. Let's just say that I think bliss ninnies are all fine and good but they really don't belong on a forum about spiritual EVOLUTION - because evolution is a difficult task requiring impeccability, commitment and - most of all - clarity. We won't evolve by shoving sugar up our nose or blowing smoke up one another's ass. We will evolve only by seeing the world and ourselves for what we are - and that simply cannot be done while wearing rose colored glasses.
Mel: So where do forums play into that?
Della: To be honest, I'm not sure they do. At least not anymore. There was a time when I had my old forum back on Delphi that I think things were a bit different. People actually seemed interested in sharing tales of power and learning from one another's experiences, instead of just playing the game of who's the better warrior.
Mel: Who's the better warrior? I've heard you use that before. What - exactly - do you mean by that?
Della: Oh - you know. It's the game the boozers & losers play when they run out of any other sort of ammo. If they can't win an argument, they put on their warrior mask and point the finger at everyone but themselves. "You're self-important!" Or, "You're just indulging!" Some of them create entire costumes for themselves - like a couple of the self-proclaimed "Della-bashers" out there. Gimme a break! While they're worrying about ME, they are completely ignoring their own path. Who cares what Della thinks? Hell, even *I* don't care half the time, so it always amazes me when some idiot starts running in circles trying to rally others to hate this teacher or disregard that guru or dismantle the teachings of some other guy who perhaps has a website about enlightenment. In their ruthless pursuit of "false teachers" they are doing nothing more than rattling their sabres for... ??? What? Truth, Justice & the American Way? A Unified Field Theory? Don Juan's left testicle? What?
Most times, they will claim they are afraid of being seduced into a cult or some such - which, of course, is a hysterical manifestation of that very self-importance they are railing against. Let's face it. Most cults don't really go out recruiting because they don't really NEED to. In most cases, someone who gets suckered in by a cult is LOOKING for a cult to get suckered into. Who's to say why? Loneliness, low self-esteem, lack of self-confidence. Hell, I've been accused recently of being a "cult leader" - which always makes me laugh. Yeah... right. Show me my cult. Show me the throngs of adoring followers. *LOL* Show me my Rolls Royce and my bankroll of hundred dollar bills and my assembled band of handsome young men gathered at my feet ready to peel me a grape and fan me with palm fronds. Yup. I'd like to see that cult!
You want to see a cult, go look at the Catholic Church or the Mormons or any other organized religion. Just because they are larger doesn't make them exempt. THERE is where you will find the real cults - and far more dangerous than anything you are likely to uncover on the internet. You want to talk about minds being wiped and lives destroyed? Look at any Christian in the throes of his or her religious experience. And then take a look at the prejudice, bigotry and hatred that is touted "in God's name" by any and all of these major religions. There's your cult.
Mel: What about Castaneda's cult? Amy Wallace's book claims he had quite a harem at one time.
Della: Oh, I have no doubt of it. But like I said - people who get suckered into cults are usually looking to get suckered into cults. These weren't "innocent" young women just looking for true love. They knew who CC was, and if they had two brain cells to rub together, they knew EXACTLY what kind of man he was. If they didn't, well they probably found out pretty quickly. At that point, they can either stay or leave. He certainly wasn't holding anyone prisoner. Again, look at churches if you want to see people held prisoner! As a kid, I was blasted with the program that said if I didn't believe in the xtian god, I was going to hell. If I didn't go to church, I was going to hell. If I didn't proselytize, I was going to hell. It was madness - the fear-based religions that steal not only our mind, but potentially our soul. Sure, cults can be a danger - but far LESS dangerous than organized religion.
And, bottom line, if you are worried about being suckered into a cult, use a bit more of your common sense and a bit less of your self-importance and ask yourself why a cult would want you in the first place. *LOL* Are you all that? Do you have tons of money to donate to the leader? Sure, we would talk about Heaven's Gate and their comet starship fantasies, but the bottom line is that nobody forced them into that cult. It was their choice to join on and their choice not to leave when they saw the inner workings of the madhouse. Why did they stay? Why did they eat the pudding? Who's to say? Maybe they believed in their great cause or maybe they just desperately wanted to belong, even if it meant dying to do it. Personally, I think people who fall into that kind of cult are somehow "damaged" in the first place. Yes, it's sad. No, it's not my fault. And neither you nor I can save people from themselves. So - worrying about getting suckered into a cult is rather like worrying about getting hit by falling debris from the space shuttle. Either could happen, but neither is likely - particularly if you don't choose to be standing at ground zero.Mel: Maybe some parents are afraid their kids might get influenced by some of the stuff you've published on your website, or some of the things in CC's books, or whatever. Isn't that a legitimate concern? Kids can take things too literally for their own good.
They might just as easily mistake the works of Stephen King or Anne Rice for reality, and start running around acting like vampires or zombies. They might put on Star Trek uniforms and try to beam themselves up to the Enterprise, too. Can't censor the whole world out of fear of somebody believing they can fly after reading a Superman comic.
I don't have kids because I CHOSE not to have kids. Not saying my choice has to hold for anyone else, but it seems to me that if I DID decide to have kids, it would be up to ME to police them, and not to expect the whole world to watch out for them. Be that as it may, it just seems that we can't "protect the children" except through educating them. If you're afraid of your child getting caught up in a cult, by all means educate the child about the nature of cults - and don't then follow-up by taking them to church on Sunday, because in doing so you are just dismantling the very thing you are trying to teach them. Take responsibility for your own kids - and that means opening your own eyes in order to do that. I know a lot of xtian parents who home school their kids these days, and it's really kinda frightening when that kid gets turned loose in the real world. They simply are not prepared for the harsh reality that exists outside of their narrow cult - and that is WHOLLY and ENTIRELY and 100% the fault of the parents, who have indoctrinated them into THEIR cult because of their own crazy belief systems.Harsh? Maybe, but it is what it is. Frankly, I'm tired of being asked to look out for everybody else's feelings and cultural taboos and belief systems, when it is patently obvious that those taboos and belief systems are PRECISELY what is responsible for all the crap going on in the world today. Rid the world of organized religion and you would see people forced to begin formulating their OWN ideas about spirituality - looking INSIDE themselves instead of hooking their intent into the cult-du-jour. Without the required agreements that stem from organized religion (and politics, for that matter), the mind is freed to find its own balance, to seek its own level. And this is especially true of children. So if people are afraid their kids might be suckered into a cult, they need to look at their own lives and determine to what extent they are programming their children to do just that...
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This is more or less where my first dialogue with Mel ended for the evening. He is encouraging me to allow him to post two additional "interviews," but I have not yet decided whether there is any reason whatsoever to do so. Even our opinions and our speeches are, in the end, dust in the wind. That being the case, I think I'll go for a walk today and work a bit on my screenplay, and sit with my weenie dog on my lap. The rest takes care of itself.
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